|
Lord_Nabu
|
31# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:617
From: Denmark
Registered:
07/18/2001
Time spent:
0 hours
|
RE:Radical change to Swordsman's Guild politics...
(Date Posted:07/01/2008 08:10:24)
duels to the death are acceptable for: murder, rape and grievious bodily injury (except in Vodacce where "looking oddly at the swordsman" seems a very acceptable reason in certain cases).
I'll look forwad to reading what you come up with, the SG was a good idea, that never found it's proper execution. most of your ideas seem to resolve those problems.
my biggest problem with the pin system is rather, that it follows the rules to closely. I would prefer that a series of examinations decided your rank, with the title "Grandmaster" being reserved for the owner of a school, and "master" perhaps being the specific term for a person certified by the grandmaster of a school to teach his school. I see no problem with the varying types of pins, that kind of system might slightly anachronistic, but so is, I believe, the very idea of the pins. Perhaps you need to have fought a number of "official" duels to gain rank?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lord Nabu
Cand.theol
Pater Familias
Grande de Gajol
Commander of the Mammuth
Grandmaster
|
|
Barna
|
32# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:1122
From:
Registered:
03/28/2002
Time spent:
0 hours
|
RE:Radical change to Swordsman's Guild politics...
(Date Posted:07/19/2008 00:49:26)
My main issue with the pins as they stand is that the whole Bronze-Silver-Gold progression for Apprentice-Journeyman-Master seems a bit video-gamey to me. The levels make sense from a mechanical point of view; in real life, however, I´m not sure that such an evaluation would be so easy.
Another idea I´v been toying with is dividing the law enforcement branch of the guild into Razors and Hounds. The second group is composed of investigators and trackers, often acting in unison with the more combat-minded Razors. There is of course much room for conflict between the groups...
One could of course point to martial arts belts and the like, but I find the concept out of place in 1600 Europe. I´d rather the pins signal some sort of administrative rather than level.
As I said, I intend to change the pins as follows:
Bronze is used for all swordsmen afiliated with the guild. The pin must be displayed at all times; failing to do so is a minor offense, punishable by fine in most cases.
Silver is used by masters approved by the guild. This examination has a certain cost and is considered a bit of an investment. Although there are very strict tests and a master must pass them, this signals teaching ability more than anything else. All masters will be good swordsmen, but could very well fall to a more experienced swordsman who is not a master. In general, the silver pin is appreciated as a sign of station and dedication to the art rather than actual "combat deadliness".
Iron is used by officials of the guild; Razors and Hounds. It usually means trouble.
Gold is used exclusively by members of the inner circle of the Guild.
Sound reasonable?
--------------------------------------------------------------
"No era el hombre mas honesto ni el mas piadoso, pero era un hombre valiente"
Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´
|
Black Jack Rackham
|
33# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:730
From:
Registered:
02/26/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
Reply To Barna
(Date Posted:07/19/2008 07:56:10)
Reply to Barna (07/19/2008 00:49:26)
My main issue with the pins as they stand is that the whole Bronze-Silver-Gold progression for Apprentice-Journeyman-Master seems a bit video-gamey to me. The levels make sense from a mechanical point of view; in real life, however, I´m not sure that such an evaluation would be so easy. Your solution sounds great Barna, but I can't help but wonder about commissions. If all members have a bronze (save for masters) then how would the customers pick from among them? My simple (if radical) solution would be thus Iron - probationary member, 0 duels won. Bronze - regular member, 1-20 duels won. Silver - experienced member, 21-50 duels won. Gold - master, 51+ duels won Platinum - Inner circle/Razors Nice simple mechanic, customers would be able to rely on a certain level of experience and be assured of a certain performance for their money. Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
|
|
Rebecca Iavelli
|
34# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:1120
From:
Registered:
04/01/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
RE:Radical change to Swordsman's Guild politics...
(Date Posted:07/19/2008 09:00:49)
Or, you can go "military" on them, and put "bars" on the pins.
Iron - newbie
Iron with bronze bar - cadet
Bronze - journeyman
Bronze with silver bar - advanced journeyman ect, ect, ect.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Fate, a four letter word, with a lot of strings attached.
-------------------------------
"We Pay to Plunder!!"
-------------------------------
The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it.
Henry David Thoreau
--------------------------------
Do not mettle in the affairs of Dragons...for you are crunchy and tastey with ketchup.
|
|
Lord_Nabu
|
35# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:617
From: Denmark
Registered:
07/18/2001
Time spent:
0 hours
|
Reply To Black%20Jack%20Rackham
(Date Posted:07/20/2008 06:28:38)
Reply to Black Jack Rackham (07/19/2008 05:56:10)
Iron - probationary member, 0 duels won.
Bronze - regular member, 1-20 duels won.
Silver - experienced member, 21-50 duels won.
Gold - master, 51+ duels won
Platinum - Inner circle/Razors
I think a master's examination is the way to go for the gold pin. To apply for examination requires you hold a silver pin, and you are then tested by a board including the owner of the guild. To qualify, you should in game-terms be a master of the school, apart from tha, it will all be up to RP and GM interests. as a master you would be deemed qualified to teach the style in an official capacity. Razors are reqruited from silver members, and carry a silver pin with the addition of a chain around the blade of the sword. school holders (called "grand masters") wear gold pins with a single diamond for every school they own, and, on official occasions, chains of office. Inner circle carry gold pins with diamond studs, and chains of office.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Lord Nabu
Cand.theol
Pater Familias
Grande de Gajol
Commander of the Mammuth
Grandmaster
|
|
Mr Big
|
36# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:359
From:
Registered:
03/25/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
RE:Radical change to Swordsman's Guild politics...
(Date Posted:10/04/2008 11:40:30)
I was reading over this discussion and the fact that swordsmen have to get permission to duel each other also bugs me. My solution to this is to bring in the Law knack. The higher a character's Law knack is the more trouble they can avoid getting into when breaking one of the guild rules. Pretty simple and it brings importance to a knack that I find can often be neglected.
There was a skill set that was invented on this forums a while ago too called Duelist that had Law as an advanced knack. If a swordsman has this skill set then they can eventually invest in the Law knack as well.
Duelist
To be a professional duelist, one needs a little more than just skill with the blade. There is the business side of the occupation to remember, too. This skill is essentially a type of Merchant skill for the hired blade.
Basic Knacks: First Aid, Menial Tasks, Etiquette, Footwork
Advanced Knacks: Haggling, Law, Cold Read, Side Step
|
|
Black Jack Rackham
|
37# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:730
From:
Registered:
02/26/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
Reply To Mr%20Big
(Date Posted:10/05/2008 08:39:57)
Reply to Mr Big (10/04/2008 11:40:30)
I was reading over this discussion and the fact that swordsmen have to get permission to duel each other also bugs me. My solution to this is to bring in the Law knack. The higher a character's Law knack is the more trouble they can avoid getting into when breaking one of the guild rules. Pretty simple and it brings importance to a knack that I find can often be neglected.
There was a skill set that was invented on this forums a while ago too called Duelist that had Law as an advanced knack. If a swordsman has this skill set then they can eventually invest in the Law knack as well.
Duelist
To be a professional duelist, one needs a little more than just skill with the blade. There is the business side of the occupation to remember, too. This skill is essentially a type of Merchant skill for the hired blade.
Basic Knacks: First Aid, Menial Tasks, Etiquette, Footwork
Advanced Knacks: Haggling, Law, Cold Read, Side Step
An interesting resolution. How would using Law to avoid consequences work? Like passive defense, the Duelist can get away with 5*Law Knack worth of trouble? or To get out of trouble character rolls Wits + Law with TN (Variable by circumstance) to get out of trouble? I suspect the latter, which brings another question. Normally in 7th Sea it's just a pass/fail. Need to hit TN 45 and roll 44? Same thing as rolling 7. You might need to add in something like, For each 5 (or 10 or whatever) below the TN a character rolls, some additional negative consequences apply. I'm also curious to see the consequences. IIRC, the Swordsman's Guild book doesn't explicitly say what happened to Swordsmen who dueled illegally, just that the consequences were serious. Now on to your new Skill. First, would it be a Civil or Martial skill? I assumed Martial until you mentioned Merchant. Second, I'm guessing that care of the sword is subsumed under the knack Menial Tasks? Third, Haggling, care to explain why? I thought the fees for duels were set by rank? Fourth, no Oratory? I assumed there to be lots of blustering to the crowds about why the duel was taking place and/or the relative (or lack thereof) merits of your opponent were commonplace. Fifth, since this is a Guild, shouldn't there be some knack for Duelists to pass on what they know? Perhaps Training? (although now that I look back at the Merchant skill it doesn't have Training as an advanced Knack, a failing I think...) Sixth, this last one may be just a matter of paperwork, but it seems to me with this skill, that the EW's you can gain for other schools should be recorded here. All in all, I really like it. Thanks for sharing Mr. Big. Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
|
|
Mr Big
|
38# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:359
| | |
