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Lady Yu
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(Date Posted:01/27/2004 09:15:30)

It has been brought to my attention that perhaps some clarification is in order about why I'm so persistent about the (tm) and copyright on AEG's material. (There may be some on this board who are involved in IP/copyright/entertainment law. This post is not intended to start a flame war, please. I'm merely relaying the procedure as I have been asked to monitor it.)Why do I have to do this? I'm not charging money for it.Material in 7th Sea or SBA books and products (GM screens, CCGs, etc.) is copyrighted. The 7th Sea logo is trademarked. That stuff belongs to AEG because they paid for it. Unlike other companies in this industry, AEG doesn't mind if you use it as long as you indicate who did it (in the case of the writers 'n artists) and who owns it (AEG).The other reason is one of professional courtesy. Writers and artists (especially!) in this industry work incredibly hard for what amounts to a whole lotta not so much money. They deserve the courtesy of having their work cited properly. This is why I make sure I have the real name of the people who provide material for the official website; they deserve the credit.I thought you've been saying that the world of 7th Sea is ours to do with as we please?It is, but that doesn't mean it belongs to you (in the legal sense). If you read the very fine print in the books you'll see that all sorts of names are trademarkedby AEG.The easy way around this problem is to be sure that you have a line somewhere in your material with the copyight symbol, year, and AEG's name:7th Sea and Swashbuckling Adventures?2004Alderac Entertainment GroupMake the name of the company a link tohttp://www.alderac.comand you're fine. If you want to use the beautiful 7th Sea logo (with trademark) make it a graphic link tohttp://www.swashbucklingadv.comand again, you're also fine.Does this mean we HAVE to use the rules? Can't we make stuff up?You can use any game system you like; you can use house rules; you can make stuff up; you can alter the timeline; you can do as you please as long as you make sure that when you are posting that information in a public place (like a website) you indicate that the material is based on 7th Sea/Swashbuckling Adventures ?2004Alderac Entertainment Group.Why? Because (a) the official material belongs to AEG and (b) we don't want someone thinking that there is no "official" material!I never meant to sound harsh but sometimes when one is wearing the Official Brand Manager hat, one sounds more autocratic than when one is chatting about LARPs 'n costumes 'n stuff. It's simply part of the professional side of the hobby and not intended as a slam at anyone.::bowing respectfully::
Ravenshadow
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(Date Posted:01/27/2004 10:31:22)

As I have said before Lady Yu, please feel free to contact anyone on REVs who has posted a piece of art or writing that may need to "get right with AEG".  I highly doubt anyone here would refuse a kindly worded request or reminder.

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"Why in poo-perfect hell did you pee on the corpse?"

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BadMrMojo
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(Date Posted:01/28/2004 21:10:27)

By the way, should this be made a sticky, perhaps?



/me runs off to put © on my site tonight...

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"So then the door opens and Nikolai steps in... only he's wearing Inquisitor robes and a Bacchus mask so you don't recognize him."

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Sidhe_Shadow
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(Date Posted:01/31/2004 01:01:34)

Month by agonizing month, I am developing a new appreciation for intellectual property law (and an even bigger appreciation for avoiding tortious malfeasance and corresponding lawsuits), so I thought I'd ask a couple questions that had come up in my head.  (Let me state up front that this is NOT a snide attempt and starting the afore-mentioned flame war.  I am genuinely trying to conform to all of AEG's guidelines and make my website completely legal.)


Under the Open Game License, proper names can be considered Product Identity, but many companies grant the restricted use of these names in other works, so long as they are acknowledged as PI belonging to AEG.  The most recent example of this is the Open Game License and Open Game Content page of Knights & Musketeers (which, by the way, refers to the Sidhe Book of Nightmares, and not Knights & Musketeers, in describing which portions of the book are desginated Open Game Content*).  It designates by description and by example which elements of AEG material are considered Product Identity, and may not be used without express permission from AEG.  Do we have this express permission to use the Product Identity in our web pages and other unpaid works?  And if so, exactly how do we go about attributing ownership of the PI material?


In another post or three, Lady Yu included a <tm> after several book names (to wit:  "[M]ay I refer all of you to the description of l'Empereur's lovely daughter Ysabette (Isabelle) on pg 57 of Sophia's Daughters (tm)?")  Does this mean that we should include a Trademark symbol on any mention of a titled AEG product? 


If so, is it only when referring to the book as a book, or in any capacity?  e.g.:


"For more information on the Boucher school, see the Montaigne?book," vs. "Jean-Pierre is a Montaigne?duelist trained in the Boucher and Valroux schools."


And, for that matter, what about Boucher and Valroux, which are themselves considered Product Identity under the OGL?  Would the need for perpetual trademarking be avoided by the addition of an apprpriate line of text with the other legal information (on the main page at a minimum, though I place it at the bottom of every page, just to be safe)?  e.g.:


"7th Sea, Avalon, Castille, Eisen, Inismore, Highland Marches, Montaigne, Ussura, Vodacce, Vendel, Vestenmannavanjar, Knights of the Rose and Cross, Invisible College, Rilasciare, Novus Ordum Mundi, Vaticine Church of the Prophets, Explorer's Society, die Kreuzritter, El Vago, and all other related marks are ?and ?2004 by Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc.  All Rights Reserved."


This was more or less the standard for the older sourcebooks; the passage above appeared in the Eisen book.  More recent books have a much less expansive list of trademarked names. In particular, Knights & Musketeers?does not assert 7th Sea as a trademarked property with the other legal information on page 1, but whenever "7th Sea" appears in the text of the book, it appears with a corresponding trademark symbol, thus:  7th Sea.?Swashbucklng Adventures, which does appear in the legal information, does not have the "? designation when it appears elsewhere in the book.  Wouldn't asserting 7th Sea (or anything else, for that matter) as the trademarked property of AEG with the other legal information eliminate the need for the trademark designation in other places?


(And I will leave it to future Copyright Law classes, and not this forum, to debate whether or not the word "Eisen" can be trademarked in the first place. )


~shadow


* page 96, second column, heading "DESIGNATION OF OPEN CONTENT." The text goes on to read "Subject to the Product Identity designation above, the following portions of The Sidhe Book of Nightmares are desgnated as Open Game Content."    Does this (unintentionally) assert that no portion of Knights & Musketeers is OGC, or does the language of the next section compensate for the misstatement?  Is this a problem for AEG's legal department?  (I really do find the whole process fascinating.)

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Sir Jack Harding
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(Date Posted:03/16/2004 19:57:59)

Hehehe, on vacation and posting while I wait for everyone else to wake up






I highly doubt anyone here would refuse a kindly worded request or reminder.






This topic and this line in particular has really hit home with me this past week. Now, the short and sweet version, since the story itself isn't really the point:


I was tangentially involved with a group that is creating a fan set of cards for the 7th Sea CCG. The person who is heading the project asked if they could use some pictures that the artist who drew my lovely avatar did. I was acting as the go-between and aparently I misunderstood what he intended for the images and he misunderstood the artist's requirement for using them. It ended up that the images where used in a way other than how the artist intended. Of course, when she saw how they were being used, she asked to have them taken down.


As I'm sure everyone can imagine, this has led to a few hurt feelings on both sides. On the bright side though, the issue seems to have been resolved now.


So, the moral of the story: Respect other people's creative material! Not only for the legal reasons, but because we all get along better and are able to acomplish *so* much more when we all play nice


To respond to Sidhe_Shadow:


I'm not sure about AEG's policies regarding every instance of their IP, but from maintaining a Changleing: The Dreaming fansite over the past several years, I know White Wolf is satisfied with a line that says something along the lines of "Changeling: The Dreaming, Wold of Darkness, and all related material ?& ?White Wolf Publishing, Inc." On top of that, since they started the Dark Spiral program, if your site is registered with the Dark Spiral, all you have to to do is put the Dark Spiral logo and link on the first page of your website and you're good to go.


Now, I know AEG is not White Wolf and I know AEG does not have an equivilant of the Dark Spiral, but I'd imagine that some sort of catch all at the bottom of your pages should cover both you and them. Of course, I am by no means a legal expert in the matter so I'd be very interested in being corrected if I'm wrong.

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7th Sea Compendium - http://www.7thsea.info

Lady Yu
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(Date Posted:03/19/2004 01:42:04)

<<Do we have this express permission to use the Product Identity in our web pages and other unpaid works?  And if so, exactly how do we go about attributing ownership of the PI material???>> [by "PI" you mean IP as in intellectual property, yes?]


As I understand it from the Powers That Be at AEG, if you put the following on your page, you're ok:


7th Sea?and Swashbuckling Adventures??2003, Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc. (and make Alderac Entertainment Group a link to http://www.swashbucklingadv.com) you?l be ok.


(The logo for Swashbuckling Adventures has the ? and if you use either the 7th Sea logo or the SBA logo, please include the ?in the graphic.


If you are doing original art, you still want to put that legal notice on the page because your work is derived from 7th Sea/SBA. If you are using artwork from a book, you will need to cite the artist. If you are planning to/want to use a cover, you are supposed to get an ok from AEG before you post it.


I put a ?after all book titles because it's part of the title (looking at the K&M book right now).  However, all the names inside can be used without ?as long as you have used the ?on the book title and cited the book somewhere. "For more information on the Boucher school, see the Montaigne?book" is how we do the referencing in the sourcebooks themselves.


<<* page 96, second column, heading "DESIGNATION OF OPEN CONTENT." The text goes on to read "Subject to the Product Identity designation above, the following portions of The Sidhe Book of Nightmares are desgnated as Open Game Content."    Does this (unintentionally) assert that no portion of Knights & Musketeers is OGC, or does the language of the next section compensate for the misstatement?  Is this a problem for AEG's legal department?  (I really do find the whole process fascinating.)>>


It's a typo - I wasn't asked to proof that page but I'll alert the PTB. Please proceed as if it were correct. <grin>


 

Bereng
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(Date Posted:04/28/2005 15:24:04)

Hi again,


Sorry Lady Yu, I ask for more information.


I am translating material of 7th Sea (you may know me because of Rapier's Edge LARP's Translation) into Spanish. My question is:


- Any translation may need then to have the attachment "7th Sea" and Swashbuckling Adventures" ?2003, Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc. (and make Alderac Entertainment Group a link to http://www.swashbucklingadv.com) and Logos are property to Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc." will be ok with the law??


- And then, we should do the same attachment with the editing company in Spain?? (La Factoria in this case)


I know there is a document rolling the web, done by my hand, which it hasn't this disclaimer. It's a compendium of sword schools in Spanish. I hope there will not be a punishment . In the future, I will write the disclaimer before translating.


Sorry again. See you soon.

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Ravenshadow
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