|
minos
|
1# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:42
From:
Registered:
11/27/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/14/2007 13:31:17)
Well, I have. In fact I have re-written several schools while working on my house rules. This Ambrogia doesn't rely on any of them anyway, so it doesn't matter. The Journeyman ability however repeats Vipera's, which I don't use in my campaigns.
The theme of it is similar to what I prefer to use in real fencing. You exhaust your opponent cutting his arms and attacking the openings while keeping distance and waiting for a final strike. In flavour it reminds technique of Numan gladiators.
Ambrogia
BC: Fencing, Knife
Knacks: Feint (F), Riposte (F), Pommel Strike (F)
Apprentice:
1. Gain Left-handed advantage.
2. NOHP when use Knife
3. For each raise on attack with either weapon you get an additional +2 to damage.
Journeyman:
1. If you miss your attack by up to Attack (Knife/Fencing)*2, you still hit and deal damage, but the opponent doesn’t make Wound Check.
Master:
1. When opponent misses your Passive/Active Defense, your next attack against them this round has TN=5.
The Master combination seems to be like this: you parry enemy's strike and riposte with five raises to get not only +5k0, but additional +10(tired of Green Bracelets) to damage. You need to miss by 10 (if you have 5 ranks in Attack) and deal a great amount of FW. Now your enemy should think twice to make another attack, which can result in more than one DW for him, which will make him Crippled, if Vodacce haven't already used Spider Venom or another poison. And Vodacce still can finish them with a throwing knife in order not to open himself.
This change makes Giovanni Villanova quite a powerful melee enemy for players and arguments his learning of Ambrogia. In my version he already has Grandmaster level (considering published stats and text of Veronica) and using my house rules can combine Riposte with Double-Parry.
|
|
minos
|
2# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:42
From:
Registered:
11/27/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/18/2007 23:34:42)
Any comments?
|
Black Jack Rackham
|
3# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:730
From:
Registered:
02/26/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/19/2007 00:03:05)
Reply to : minos
Any comments?
DOH! Guess at my age, the mind slips...
My first comment was going to be, thanks for the reply. As far as the school goes, I really haven't reviewed it to see how well it is balanced against other schools. When I asked about this what I was trying to ask was, had anyone re-written the school, keeping its themes and style, while making it fit with the mechanics of the other schools (for example, Ambrogia is the only two weapon school not to give it's practitioners the skill in one of the required weapons, i.e. dagger).
Oh and if you still want me to review it, I'd be more than happy to.
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
|
|
minos
|
4# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:42
From:
Registered:
11/27/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/19/2007 15:40:04)
Yes, review it please.
About theme, as you can see, only JM ability was changed completely. The basic ability is nearly the same, but has better description and doesn't provoke arguments, that anyone can twist his blade in the wound.
The JM ability was changed, because the original one had no sense. Now it fits into the school combo and being a JM ability gives swordsman a new tactic.
|
|
Barna
|
5# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:1122
From:
Registered:
03/28/2002
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/19/2007 18:45:40)
The problem with Ambrogia IMHO is that several of the advantages it grants are only useful in combat against named NPCs. The Apprentice +2 damage bonus is useless against brutes, as is the Journeyman ability of trading DW. This is an often-forgotten point when considering school balance; if you check out Aldana, you?l se that one of it? strengths is that the bonuses you get apply to both brute combat and named NPC combat.
It? often hard to have abilities which comply with this requirement, and the Ambrogia Master ability *is* quite powerful, but I? not a fan of the Journeyman ability, as it also seems weird from a "thematic" point of view (never really understood the idea...going all in and risking a wound? sounds odd). I? probably emphasize the two-weapon aspect of the school, which has been underplayed in the mechanics but seems relevant in the fluff.
--------------------------------------------------------------
"No era el hombre mas honesto ni el mas piadoso, pero era un hombre valiente"
Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´
|
|
minos
|
6# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:42
From:
Registered:
11/27/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:04/19/2007 22:44:14)
Yes, Aldana is the greatest school from the starting set and with castillian bonus finesse it becomes even stronger.
I completely agree with brute/npc-bonuses, I have the same ideas. But still brutes aren't prime enemy of the swordsmen. Ambrogia still gives you +1k0 to attack and ability to riposte. Master ability is still good.
Original JM ability could be explained like this: swordsman goes into clinche, impaling himself on enemy's weapon in order to push his own blade further or strike with secondary weapon. But the first question I have about this is what happens if you are attacking a surprised boxer from the rear. Another variant is that you make a bold, but exhausting attack, and the loss of energy is equal to a DW. But there are no rules regarding exhausting. And the main problem is, that when you reach JM status you are strong enough and don't need to sacrifice DW for DW. The only usage for this was make an enemy Crippled with less attacks (if you have Pain Tolerance anf high Resolve yourself) and it was also (in theory) useful against enemies with high Wound Check roll. But a drachen still will kill you with such an exchange. The only hope is for a final strike, which usually result in double KO.
|
|
Black Jack Rackham
|
7# |
Rank:none
Status:
Score:0
Posts:730
From:
Registered:
02/26/2004
Time spent:
0 hours
|
(Date Posted:05/05/2007 07:26:28)
Sorry this took so long (dealing with other writing projects)
Ok review time
Basic Curriculum
Fine, appropriate given that it is a two-weapon school.
Knacks
Ok you mentioned under the fluff that it is designed to attack arms and look for openings while remaining at a distance and waiting for that final strike. The way I read 'attack arms' it seems to me that's another way of making your attacks (or defenses) more effective (your opponent can't raise their weapon properly). In a mechanics sense, that could be represented by extra DD to be used against an opponent for one particular fight. So, it would seem that Tagging might be a more appropriate knack. Second, you 'look for openings' which sounds like luring them out of position, ala Feint, so that should stay. Last, the final strike, seems to me that sounds a lot more like a Lunge than a Ripose or Pommel Strike.
But given that you've decided to keep the original knacks, I see another problem. You're falling into the same trap as the original Ambrogia. You give the swordsman two weapons then don't take advantage of it. None of these knacks (heck none of the other abilities) require two weapons, with the exception of NOHP. So I'd do some serious considering about that. My recommendation would be just to take the dagger out, but I could be wrong. So ok, back to the knacks, Feint (no active defense), Riposte (stop their hit, hit em back), pommel strike (damage and TN 5 this phase and next). I'm seeing a potential pommel strike/feint/attack abuse but hold that thought.
Mastery Abilities
Apprentice: Pretty much the same as the original, however, you've changed the whole 'blade twist' thingie. Now, rather than just a +2 damage per hit advantage, you can take extra raises for guaranteed damage. I'm a bit confused here. Are you saying that I get the 1st +2 dam for free but can take raises for extra damage or is it a 1 raise equals +2 dam. Problem I see with this is, it's not vastly different from the 1 raise equals +1k0. Not sure of the probabilities involved but I'm guessing they are pretty close. What's the incentive for me to choose one over the other? If you want to make it more powerful (which I don't necessarily agree with given the new fluff description) why not go with something like, twisting causes +2*(Mastery Level) damage.
EDIT: Just re-read your combination description near the end, and OUCH. You expect that for each raise you take you get both +1k0 and +2 dam? Way, way too powerful. You're giving an apprentice Ambrogia swordsman an advantage similar to Durchsetzungberg Masters (called shot, avoiding armor protection AND raise to damage)
Journeyman: a very powerful ability. Sure, the opponent doesn't have to make a Wound check but all that really does is crank up the final total when they do have to make up the check (thus increasing chances of multiple DW in a hit). However, when you combine that with a very powerful Apprentice ability, it's simply too much. Ideally you want your three mastery abilities not only to aid one another but you want to make it so there is some sacrifice to gain something else. So far, I'm not seeing any downside to this.
Master:
Same master ability, same issues of 'no reason for the dagger.' Advantage here is, where before you had to rely on pommel strike to get your opponent to TN 5 now all he has to do is miss somewhere in the round and you have him. Again, too powerful. But there's more, read below.
So, overall impression.
I mentioned earlier a pommel strike/feint/attack abuse, and especially after reading your description of the Master combination, its exactly what I see. Every fight will go just like this. You get a saved up action to riposte in case your opponent manages to hit you. Then you wait for him to miss at some point before phase 10. Once he misses, you let loose your barrage of attacks, and they go like this; pommel strike, he is, after all, TN 5 so the roll should be pretty easy, and from now on he'll just be listening to the ringing in his ears. So next you attack, taking a minimum of 5 raises. He is, after all, TN 5 for this phase and the next. You have a 4 finesse and attack fencing 5. Even if you miss, you aren't going to miss by ten, so he just earned himself 5k2 (assuming you have a 3 brawn) + 5k0 (raises for damage) +10. He can try to parry but his ears are still ringing. He begins clearing his head as you proceed to repeat the attacks until you run out of actions. Heck you didn't even need the Feint. Course if he attempts a riposte, you just turn that back on him with that good ol' extra damage laden bonus, and you're right back to the attack.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you want the school to have more than just one uber-combination which gets used over and over. In this case, you've got yourself one.
Just my (way over) 2.73816234 cents worth.
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------
"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
|
| |
