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fenrirsget
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 03:02:19)

I was wondering if anyone knew why smallswords (as far as I know), have only been seen in schools used in conjunction with a buckler.  This makes no sense to me whatsoever, as smallswords were improvements of the rapier that allowed them to be more wieldly and eliminated the need for a parrying dagger (or buckler) in the off-hand.  I'd like to see (if not write) a school based more closely on the historic presence of these pretty little death tools.
fenrirsget
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 03:23:43)

In fact, I think this would give the ultimate opportunity to expound on my frustration with many swordsman schools.


Now, I'm sixteen.  I've taken several classes in both stage combat (based on historical styles), and straight-on fencing.  I, personally, (as well as most others who  pay  any attention in class) can execute feints, lunges, beats, ripostes, stop-thrusts, corps-a-corps, and pommel strikes  all within one of these styles (I've executed all of these during a single duel with a smallsword).


I, as a sub-apprentice level brute (probably), have access to four more swordsman knacks than a starting 100 HP Hero.  Anyone got a good explanation for this?
Hildegarde
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 04:30:27)

Well, from what I remember reading, the use of a smallsword is for flavor purposes only.  That's it.  No mechanical differences at all.


I have described my Triple Kingdoms characters who use  fencing as using a "smallsword", even though they are not Donovan (sp) school.  Whether or not in "Real Life History" smallswords were an improvement to the rapier, Donovan school and the use of the smallsword and buckler are described as "old fashioned."  Apparently, such was not the case in Theah.  ::small shrug::


I suppose that is as clear as mud.  Any rule-types able to shed more light?

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fenrirsget
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 05:22:07)

I know that there is no mechanic differnce between smallswords and rapiers (save that smallswords cost more), but I'm mostly wondering about the choice of weapons for the specific style.  It would be akin to using a viking broadsword without a shield.
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 05:35:57)

Well, I think the 'misuse' of the smallsword stems more from a slight misunderstanding than any bad intentions...



Replace the word "smallsword" with "backsword" in the Donovan text. Make a little more sense?



I don't think Th?h even has (what I consider to be) smallswords yet. Fencing weapons as a whole (from the earliest estocs on up to modern epees) seem to suffer from a general identity crisis.



edit: quick search and first decent link I found to represent the difference between the two. Might be helpful for those who want to see what I mean. The source isn't one I'm familiar with but happened to have a good picture of what I was referring to.

Longsword, Rapier, Backsword and Smallsword



Regarding the knacks issue, there are two explanations which you may or may not find satisfying:



1. The ranks in the appropriate knacks represent ability when under attack/stress/real world conditions, which is not necessarily the same as what you've done while in class.



This is definitely not a knock on you or an attempt to get into a pissing match... I hold people with their "combat-ready" Pakistani knockoff blades who talk about their intensive training and their hypothetical battle-worthiness in nothing less than utter contempt. It drives me nuts. No matter how many SCA tourneys I 'fight' in, I will still readily admit that if someone were actually trying to kill me with an actual weapon, I would probably wet myself and whimper. So would all those "battle-ready" guys, most likely. Please don't let anyone see this post and start down the dark path of boasting... it's just shameful.



2. Abstraction. I always assume that when someone is performing Attack(Fencing) that they are bright enough to disengage and therefore not get impaled by the other schmuck who's undoubtedly engaged and on guard. When the Valroux apprentice is attacking with their main gauche, I am quite sure that the practioner wasn't standing there holding their rapier limply while doing it. You sweep or bind and _then_ close... or else you get poked with the other guy's pointy bits. If you miss the Castillian's passive footwork score, you better believe he stepped to the side, even if he didn't use the sidestep knack.



The point is that when you do something with a super-special swordsman knack, you are doing a really noteworthy job of it. Anyone can close and throw a shoulder, but someone using Corps-a-Corps is doing a damn good job of it. We all can beat and then thrust but someone with the Beat knack is just particularly good at it. It's abstraction.



By that measure, then brutes are assuredly doing all the same moves as the swordsmen, just they aren't as good at it. Why should they be? They're just brutes...



Make any more sense? Daft idea? Whaddya think?

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Barna
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 08:27:05)

I very much like tihs interpretation of yours, and I've always though more or less the same. Every attack involves some sort of feint, every parry is in some way a beat. I often go as far as to describe a simple attack-parry exchange between two characters as having maybe a shoulder bump, a feint or beat. Having the actual knack means that you master the technique and that you can exercise it in a more than intuitive way.

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Lyle dCarleon
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 08:50:48)

Reply to : Barna


I very much like tihs interpretation of yours, and I've always though more or less the same. Every attack involves some sort of feint, every parry is in some way a beat. I often go as far as to describe a simple attack-parry exchange between two characters as having maybe a shoulder bump, a feint or beat. Having the actual knack means that you master the technique and that you can exercise it in a more than intuitive way.


 

 

 

Without a doubt - I frequently use all sorts of cosmetic descriptions for simple Fencing Attacks for variety and interest, including plenty that would seem to be the province of Swordsman Knacks, but I don't expect the mechanical benifits thereof.

 

The Swordsman Knacks are the ability to gain a specific mechanical advantage viathe technique, but amatuers can still use the aesthetics
BadMrMojo
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(Date Posted:08/03/2004 09:24:22)

Reply to : Lyle dCarleon




The Swordsman Knacks are the ability to gain a specific mechanical advantage viathe technique, but amatuers can still use the aesthetics.





Damn. Why didn't anyone tell me I could have summarize that all in one line? Very well put.

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fenrirsget
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