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Dakpres
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1# |
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 14:02:32)
Personnally I agree, exploit weakness is crap.
It was very usefull when each nation had but one school.
But now it is so watered down as to be useless. As far as I recall
in 20-30 gaming sessions I have used exploit weakness (valroux)
a grand total of 1 fight. Not exactly worth the points.
Maybe to bring back the original flavor they should all be replaced by
exploit weakness: (montainge), (avalon), (castilian), etc...
You learn a nation's school, you get that nations exploit weakness.
fast and simple.
Dan
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Black Jack Rackham
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 14:38:13)
What about this? Instead of exploit weakness (School), have exploit weakness (Swordsman Knack). My idea is that one lunge is essentially the same as another (though the weapon may be different, or handedness of the opponent, etc.). So once you've seen how lunge works you k now how to stop a lunge from any school. That was EW has a number of different knacks it can cover but essentially the overall number remains the same no matter how many schools show up. Even more so, there will be a lot more people taking exploit weakness (riposte) than exploit weakness (side-step). Course this will require a big change in any one school. Perhaps schools will have to start with 6 knacks (three regular and three EW's based on the regular).
Mark
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"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 19:53:31)
If you go the knack route, you have to just allow for the exploit to effect any school using the mechanic of the knack within it's listed knacks. (EW: Lunge effects all schools using Lunge)
If you go the Axis route, use three parameters and you should be in good shape. I would then suggest having 6 EW types one for each extreme in the 3 parameters.
OR
You go EW based on combat styles: Single weapon, paired weapons, heavy weapon, fist/glove, etc.
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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!
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Leather neck
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(Date Posted:10/03/2005 23:33:36)
I have been playing around with the idea that EW is the average of the other three school knacks. So, now the players are not sore from having to dump XP into a knack they may not get much use of, yet it raises as they gain better understanding in the school.
If a player takes another schools EW then goes off to learn that school latter, they should get a discount of the school cost based on the XP spent to learn that EW.
Should there be at least an XP cost for the Rank 5 EW to earn Master? Or am I being mean about it?
Of course with EW being the average of the school, I guess the cost of the school should be lower. After all it is sort of figured into the 25 HP cost.
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"I"ll tell you a secret: When your number comes up, you"re going to go. Well, every morning I get up, I change my number." - Edward Chun, 83 year old Pearl Harbor Survivor
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Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/04/2005 04:44:36)
As long as you use the altered costs across the board, I think it's balanced.
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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!
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Barna
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(Date Posted:10/05/2005 17:53:18)
Leather neck, I like your idea of EX as the average of "real" swordsman knacks. That way, the notion that EW is your knowledge on how a particular school works makes more sense (since having someone with all ones in knacks and 5 in EW is pretty dumb IMO). Also, it can cut down the mastery costs a bit; I can see my players are not very happy when they spend a lot of points in an essentially worthless knack.
Another idea which could follow from this one is getting free EW points in other schools when you fight opponents of that school. In order not to overpower things, the number of opponents one would need to fight would be exponential (1,2,4,9, etc), and there would be certain "minimum fight time" requirements and/or minimum mastery level from the opponent.
I`ll see if I come up with a simple table later.
EDIT: I moved the thread to Mechanics since it technically belongs here.
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"No era el hombre mas honesto ni el mas piadoso, pero era un hombre valiente"
Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´
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Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/06/2005 18:40:35)
Actually it probalby belongs jsut as much in swordschools as here but no big deal either way.
The only issue with grabbing free EW points for fighting other schools is that it will accumulate rather quickly in some games and lead to a bigger advantage down the road.
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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!
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Barna
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(Date Posted:10/06/2005 21:27:23)
I see how it can become a bit overpowering. Still, I think EW should be more expensive than it? current XP cost. As a mater of fact, I wouldn? allow players to spend XP in getting Exploit Weakness, but rather have them develop it as they fight members of that particular school. It is a bit of painful bookeeping, but a bit more coherent with the general idea of EW. Something more or less like follows:
EW 1: Fight two different opponents from this school.
EW 2: Fight five different opponents from this school. At least one of them must be a Journeyman.
EW 3: Fight ten different opponents from this school. At least two of them must be Journeymen.
EW 4: Fight twenty different opponents from this school. At least five must be Journeymen, at least one must be a Master.
EW 5: Fight thirty different opponents from this school. At least ten must be journeymen, at least five must be masters.
Too much? To little?
Comments please 
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"No era el hombre mas honesto ni el mas piadoso, pero era un hombre valiente"
Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´
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hillhome
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(Date Posted:10/06/2005 22:01:44)
I would assume that extra "Masters" being fought would also cancel one of the journeyman slots. So I would change the wording to something like "two of them must be at least Journeymen status (or higher)." Something along those lines. My question is who has to do the book keeping on this one? The GM or the Player? Both? Does the player then have to pay the XP to gain that rank of XP weakness or do they just gain it automatic? Does this apply for your own school as well? How many "rounds" must be fought for it to count on the chart, 4 or 8 or what? Also what about the XP discounts that belonging to the Guild and the Razors? Do they still apply or do they require a reduction in when the E.W. can be obtained? Is there a point at which these requirements will lessen (say you know 5 schools or something like that) and what about very similar schools, such as Valroux/Desiax/Gaulle (all of which are quite alike).
Overall I think I like the concept, but it needs some clarification and refining to be used. Especially in the book keeping responsibility area.
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Experience is the best teacher, but often a brutal one.
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danar
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(Date Posted:10/06/2005 22:24:56)
off the cuff, i like the idea of requiring a combat to last a number of rounds equal to the current exploit weakness rank to count. specifically, i'd like to see duels last much longer than they do simply because too often the players get into the "i have a great initiative, so i go first and cripple the guy" mentality. i've seen people ignore active defenses often enough that i actually considered instituting a home rule where all damage increased by 2 kept dice unless an active defense was attempted. (brawn+4 keep 4 is a lot scarier than brawn+2 keep 2)
-d
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-dana
"All of our best and oldest legends recognize that time passes and that people grow old and die."
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Barna
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(Date Posted:10/07/2005 00:22:20)
Reply to : hillhome
I would assume that extra "Masters" being fought would also cancel one of the journeyman slots. So I would change the wording to something like "two of them must be at least Journeymen status (or higher)."
Indeed, that? how I intended it. I?l change the wording later.
My question is who has to do the book keeping on this one? The GM or the Player? Both?
Mhh, that? a "figure it out yourself" sort of question, similar to "who keeps track of dramatic wounds".
Does the player then have to pay the XP to gain that rank of XP weakness or do they just gain it automatic?
No, the whole idea of this rule is that EW can only be raised through combat and you cannot spend XP to just bump it up.
Does this apply for your own school as well?
It could, but I prefer to use the rule suggested above, specifically that EW is automatically raised to the average (rounding down) of you other 3 knacks.
How many "rounds" must be fought for it to count on the chart, 4 or 8 or what?
I? say that 4 rounds should be enough, that? quite a bit of maneuvers at 3 Panache each.
Also what about the XP discounts that belonging to the Guild and the Razors? Do they still apply or do they require a reduction in when the E.W. can be obtained? Is there a point at which these requirements will lessen (say you know 5 schools or something like that) and what about very similar schools, such as Valroux/Desiax/Gaulle (all of which are quite alike).
I wouldn? give any bonuses to Guild Members; it? just more likely to be able to combat an opponents with a sanctioned school. Regarding the Razors, they have a LOT of training experience against different schools. On similar schools, you COULD make a pairing for them if you like, that is, to combine them and create a broader EW category.
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"No era el hombre mas honesto ni el mas piadoso, pero era un hombre valiente"
Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´
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Lady Grace
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(Date Posted:10/07/2005 00:59:40)
What abour purchasing other EWs in Character creation? Like plot-prep for a background (getting revenge on an Aldana swordsman with your Valroux wielder) or something similar?
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"Ulf, just because you drank six tankards of Vesten mead and shout "I'm the Oncoming Storm!" does not --I repeat-- does NOT automatically make you a Berserker!" -- Fortunato Valari
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