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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 08:12:15)

As it is designed, 7th Sea's Reputation system is both interesting and flawed. Whereas I like the idea of the mechanic in that it gives you bonus dice to use during scenes of interaction (the Repartee system), it is far too linear to account for all of the actions a Hero or Villain has taken to sum up their lives. In general, Reputation works well enough, but I believe there should be a few fundamental changes at its core to make it more dynamic. I had been considering how to improve on it since the last epic I ran, and I believe I have come up with some sensible ideas that I'd like to share here.Renown and InfamyInstead of having one scale that can dip from numbers like -150 all the way to +150, a person's Reputation should be based on two separate scales.Renownis the heroic scale of Reputation. It is at once a numerical summation of his fame and glory, and also all of the positive things he has done in the world.Infamyis the scale associated with villainous activity and a scoundrel's standing. It is, of course, the negative balance to Renown, but is not adjudicated by a negative number.Reputation points, either Renown or Infamy, are earned when the character has done something in public, or if word got around of his deeds. They can be earned with almost any sort of exploit or action. Duels, court, saving people, maligning people, defending honor, offending honor, getting published, charity work, and theft are all examples of acts that can earn Reputation. The defining rule is merely that it be known to at least a few other folks. The amount of Reputation earned is directly proportionate to the size or influence of those affected by or witnessing the event. They must also know who you are.Saving the scientist from the Inquisitors does nothing for your Renown if the scientist doesn't know whom to thank.A localized or very small group of people knowing of your feats might only be worth one point. Having your actions known throughout a region or by a larger group is worth three or four points. National or large and influential groups would give five or six points or more points. These values can be modified further depending on what the event in question was.A duel with an unknown Valroux apprentice might not affect the points, or possibly even lower it by one, but a duel with Remy du Montaigne may make it go up five or six points in itself!Making A Name For YourselfWhether you're a Hero or a Villain, being recognized is important. If you are trying to use your good (or heinous) name to influence others, but no one knows who you are, you aren't going to get too far. Sometimes all it takes is one popular or well-known individual recognizing you to open doors that were previously sealed shut.Reis is physically a scary man, but if you don't know he's Reis, you won't be sure at which point to start groveling and praying. If your friend next to you points out that the pirate is the infamous Reis, you'll know exactly how much more pain you'll soon be suffering.The higher your Renown or Infamy, the more you may be recognized wherever you go. To be recognized, an individual needs to make a Wits roll using thePeople Knack. The TN to be recognized begins at 85. The TN is reduced by one for every point you have in the higher of the two Reputation scales. If it succeeds, you will be known for who you are through your own renown or infamy. If it fails, you will not immediately be recognized. However, the GM may also allow the individual a second opportunity to know you using the lesser of the two Rep scales. And on occasion it may be useful that people know both sides of your personality.Stating your identity will give a number of Free Raises depending on how much information about yourself is given. Usually this will result from a single Free Raise for simply mentioning your occupation, to four or five, or more, for a name, occupation, and brief highlights of your major exploits (but this can also seem like an awful lot of bragging which can bring negative effects in certain circles). Making your name known is worth two Free Raises.An introduction given from a reliable or notable someone who knows you carries the same weight as being recognized, even if those around you still have never heard of you. No recognition rolls are necessary and you still retain the full weight of your identity. If the person introducing you is going by the lesser of your two Reputation scales, the GM may still give those present a chance to recognize you for your "greater" deeds. This may often result in problems associated with feelings of being mislead and such.The Vodacce nobleman introduces Reis as the captain who successfully fended off an attack by Kheired-Din and thus saved the town. But you are more aware of Reis through hisotheractions.Reputation DiceAs with the normal rules, a character is given a Reputation Die for every (full) 10 points on the scale. In this case, the character ends up with two sets of dice: a Renown pool and an Infamy pool. These Reputation Dice are still used in the Repartee system or other social and interactive settings such as court or the local tavern. However, when a character wants to interact with someone in a friendly or positive manner, he would use his Renown Dice, such as, for example, if he were using sociable conversation to persuade someone to loan him 500 Guilders. If he wanted to threaten or intimidate someone into giving him 500 Guilders, he would rely on his Infamy Dice for bonus rolling.The number of Reputation Dice you receive will change depending on the location and situation you find yourself in. It can also be fluid depending on who you are and if you are properly recognized. The chart below sums up the variability of Reputation Dice and the values apply to both the Renown and the Infamy Dice pools. For instance, whether you're trying to charm the locals or scare them, if you're in a nation at war with your own, you will find the people there a little more hesitant toward you.Among your personal peers or good friendsAmong your fellows or close acquaintencesAmong your personal foesAmong your personal enemiesIn a foreign environmentIn a nation at war with your ownKnight of the Rose and CrossAmong the exact people you helpedAmong the exact people you malignedNot being Recognized+2 Dice+1 Die-1 Die-2 Dice-1 Die-2 Dice+1 Die+2 Dice-2 Dice-3 DiceNew AdvantageDual-Natured (1 - 5 points)Sometimes it is necessary to mislead one group or another into thinking you are someone not quite who you really are. It could be that you and your partner are adept at switching off playing Good Musketeer/Bad Musketeer. Maybe even though you hop around wearing a mask and saving innocents, you know how to turn that Renown into a scary, intimidating stare that frightens even the hardiest Inquisitor. Whatever the case, you know enough of a group or faction that you know how to manipulate a seemingly opposing Reputation to your advantage.You can, with a single group or faction, switch your Renown for your Infamy Dice, or vice versa, in order to have a higher dice pool to use against that group. The cost of the Advantage depends on how large the group is.Thoughts?Richard

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Black Jack Rackham
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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 08:32:26)

Richard,


Interesting way to deal with some of the problems I have always had with the reputation system.   I really like the variability of the rewards for reputation based on how many know it happened. I do have a couple of questions though.


1. With the old system, there was a definitive point at which the character became a villain (NPC in GM control).  Is there a point in this new system where the same thing happens?  I know there are several advantages (and swordsmen's schools) which allow you to become more "evil" before you have to surrender the character.


2.  EDIT:  whoops nevermind this, I just found the answer.


3.  Ok this one is just a little silly, but, what is the People Knack?


Mark


 

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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 08:46:56)

Thanks Mark


 


1. Sure, you could say that the character becomes a Villain and under the GM's control when his Infamy scale is obviously overwhelming his Renown scale.  It's the sort of thing that should be left up to the GM in my opinion.  For me, I'd definately have a chat with the player if his Infamy is twice or more his Renown, with an exception noted if he had taken the Scoundrel Advantage.


2. Super!


3. Sorry.  I made "People Knack" a link back to my site where I detailed my General Knowledge Skill.  But in essence, People is the Knack used for knowing or recognizing folks.  Take a look at General Knowledge on my site to see more.


People: Sometimes it really is who you know that's significant. And you know the names of a lot of people and how important they are. You may not know them on a personal level, but you know of them. You've even picked up tidbits here and there that make for interesting conversation. Everyone knows Cardinal Verdugo is the head of the Inquisition, but you know from a friend of a friend that he has six toes on his right foot.


If you or your GM didn't want to use my General Knowledge and People, then I'd suggest lowering the TN to be recognized a little bit, maybe down to 65 or 70.


 


Richard

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hillhome
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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 10:38:21)

I think a jump from a TN 15 to be recognized to a TN of 85 to be excessive, very much so. It will amount to your PC's almost never being known. I mean you could sometimes hit a TN 15 recognition on 1k1 (granted NOT likely, but possible) that possibility is gone from this system. Assuming a similar jump in TN's an NPC aiding your PC would jump from TN 25 to TN 95. I think that is a bit extreme.


On the positive side it is well thought out and more reflective of how things would really work I think, the dual systems thing is an oft mentioned solution and you have handled it well.

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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 16:28:11)

Reply to : hillhome



I think a jump from a TN 15 to be recognized to a TN of 85 to be excessive, very much so. It will amount to your PC's almost never being known. I mean you could sometimes hit a TN 15 recognition on 1k1 (granted NOT likely, but possible) that possibility is gone from this system. Assuming a similar jump in TN's an NPC aiding your PC would jump from TN 25 to TN 95. I think that is a bit extreme.



 


Am I confused, or am I confusing?


The way it would work is this.  Say your character has a Renown of 40.  He's invited to a posh Montaigne party.  While there, he wishes to mingle some.  He spots Alvara Arciniega over by the punch bowl and wants to introduce himself.  Right away Alvara has a TN 45 (85 - 40) to know your character offhand rolling his People and Wits, keep Wits.  If your character had stated his name and occupation to Alvara the TN effectively becomes a 30 (3 Free Raises for Alvara since he knows your name and occupation).


Alvara has a decent People and Wits and rolls a 42.  He recognizes who you are and you can now effectively use your Renown Dice on him when you start asking him about his most recent forays into the Fifth Science.


Later on, a Castillian duelist approaches you and begins telling you his name and that you killed his father.  He wants you to make preparations for death.  You roll your People/Wits to see if you recognize this man.  The duelist has a Renown of 50 and he's given you a lot of information about himself.  Your TN to recognize him is 35 and you have 4 Free Raises to reach it, effectively making the TN a 15.


The person wanting to recognize makes the roll.  However, as often is the case in playing, you want some to recognize you. But you're not making that roll, the person recognizing you is.  you only make the roll if you wish to recognize someone else.


Richard

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Barna
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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 16:50:07)

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(Date Posted:07/25/2005 20:54:39)

That check is way too high. You are basing TNs off stats that you would normally see in powerful NPCs or established PCs.



On top of that, you are already splitting reputation in a way that will be reducing the amount a character will have available to his "renown". A comoner type NPC with no real stats will have zero chance of recognizing anybody including their own rulers in this scale. You need to drop these TNs a lot.



In fact, the chances of not recognizing someone such as Arciniega or Villanova should really come from a botched roll. Damn near everybody will recognize this person when they walk in. their personalities are such that they exude importance. (same with Berek or Reis) Your average guy in the tavern that is not hammered on grog should be able to look up and go, "Crap, what's he doing here? time to sneak out the back".



You are forgetting that the goal of this game is heroic success. stuff like this is everyday for the heroes. It's not suppossed to be super hard. the Big gun NPCs are suppossed to be on level with the players not towering over them. (in stats or greatness)

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