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Lord_Nabu
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 14:21:21)

Exploit weakness in it self was never a problem to me. What is became a problem was the fact that it was too easy to make it mostly worthless, due to the fact, that there are far to many schools, both the published, and the prodigious amount of fan-made ones. EW easily becomes a hole into which players have to sink points while not really gaining anything from it.There have been several suggestions on these fora for changes, and quite a few for workarounds (one I have always liked was simply tomostlyrestrict yourself (as a gamemaster) to the main nation schools from the players Guide, on the other hand, this is, however, an unsatisfactory restriction to place on oneself, there are many fun schools, and the master is the only one who can really pick and choose among them.My idea (which I had while showering this morning, always a good time to think) was first to create a sort of matrix, delineating how the EW of each school would interact. I then realised how ridiculously HUGE this matrix would become... Then I remembered and old topic on the boards, where someone (I admit I can't remember who, and I haven't the time to search atm.) suggested replacing all EWs with a short number of knacks, e.g. EW (patterned) or EW (aggressive) and I thought, what if you combine the two, and with a rememberance from a certain other game it struck me: you create alignments for the schools, and then you find some way of describing how these alignments interact... my suggestions for alignments run over two axis, aggressive-defensive, and wild-patterned. (my immediate thought is that you can be neutral on one or the other axis, but not both, there is no such thing as a fully balanced martial art) an exploit weakness could then for example be: EW (Eisenfaust - defensive patterned) and you could then gain full bonus if your opponent has the same weakness, i.e. defensive patterned, a smaller bonus ifit has a EW with the same alignment, an even smaller bonus ifit has one alignment component in common with Eisenfaust.Together with this idea also runs my idea, that EW should be used as EW-opponents mastery level. (actually this opens for simply allowing people to use two EWs against Grand masters at once, this gives only a max result of two unkept dice (which hopefully for you at this level should have a reasonable chance of converting to kept)well, what do you think?

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Lord Nabu
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Dakpres
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 16:02:32)

Personnally I agree, exploit weakness is crap.


It was very usefull when each nation had but one school.


But now it is so watered down as to be useless.  As far as I recall


in 20-30 gaming sessions I have used exploit weakness (valroux)


a grand total of 1 fight.  Not exactly worth the points.


 


Maybe to bring back the original flavor they should all be replaced by


exploit weakness: (montainge), (avalon), (castilian), etc...


You learn a nation's school, you get that nations exploit weakness.


fast and simple.


 


Dan


 

Black Jack Rackham
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 16:38:13)

What about this?  Instead of exploit weakness (School), have exploit weakness (Swordsman Knack).  My idea is that one lunge is essentially the same as another (though the weapon may be different, or handedness of the opponent, etc.).  So once you've seen how lunge works you k  now how to stop a lunge from any school.  That was EW has a number of different knacks it can cover but essentially the overall number remains the same no matter how many schools show up.  Even more so, there will be a lot more people taking exploit weakness (riposte) than exploit weakness (side-step).  Course this will require a big change in any one school.  Perhaps schools will have to start with 6 knacks (three regular and three EW's based on the regular).


Mark

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Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/02/2005 21:53:31)

If you go the knack route, you have to just allow for the exploit to effect any school using the mechanic of the knack within it's listed knacks. (EW: Lunge effects all schools using Lunge)



If you go the Axis route, use three parameters and you should be in good shape. I would then suggest having 6 EW types one for each extreme in the 3 parameters.



OR



You go EW based on combat styles: Single weapon, paired weapons, heavy weapon, fist/glove, etc.

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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!

Leather neck
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(Date Posted:10/04/2005 01:33:36)

I have been playing around with the idea that EW is the average of the other three school knacks. So, now the players are not sore from having to dump XP into a knack they may not get much use of, yet it raises as they gain better understanding in the school.



If a player takes another schools EW then goes off to learn that school latter, they should get a discount of the school cost based on the XP spent to learn that EW.



Should there be at least an XP cost for the Rank 5 EW to earn Master? Or am I being mean about it?



Of course with EW being the average of the school, I guess the cost of the school should be lower. After all it is sort of figured into the 25 HP cost.

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"I"ll tell you a secret: When your number comes up, you"re going to go. Well, every morning I get up, I change my number." - Edward Chun, 83 year old Pearl Harbor Survivor

Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/04/2005 06:44:36)

As long as you use the altered costs across the board, I think it's balanced.

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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!

Barna
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(Date Posted:10/05/2005 19:53:18)

Leather neck, I like your idea of EX as the average of "real" swordsman knacks. That way, the notion that EW is your knowledge on how a particular school works makes more sense (since having someone with all ones in knacks and 5 in EW is pretty dumb IMO). Also, it can cut down the mastery costs a bit; I can see my players are not very happy when they spend a lot of points in an essentially worthless knack.


Another idea which could follow from this one is getting free EW points in other schools when you fight opponents of that school. In order not to overpower things, the number of opponents one would need to fight would be exponential (1,2,4,9, etc), and there would be certain "minimum fight time" requirements and/or minimum mastery level from the opponent.


I`ll see if I come up with a simple table later.


EDIT: I moved the thread to Mechanics since it technically belongs here.


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Arturo Perez Reverte, primera linea de ´El Capitan Alatriste´

Salamanca
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(Date Posted:10/06/2005 20:40:35)

Actually it probalby belongs jsut as much in swordschools as here but no big deal either way.



The only issue with grabbing free EW points for fighting other schools is that it will accumulate rather quickly in some games and lead to a bigger advantage down the road.

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Damn! Asking for exposition is like kryptonite to NPCs!

Barna
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